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Your Corrections are Wrong!2004-06-13 02:13:47chiefh

Duh…What absolutes do you speak of….are there or are there NOT absolutes…. To speak of an absolute one must believe that it exists! Speaking in terms of what is right or wrong….yes anyone is free to have their own beliefs…...that Is Freedom! What is an absolute? You seem to be a very bright individual…but still don’t seem to know what an Absolute means, it certainly is not subjective as you state! Rather it is an Ideal Set in concrete…An Unchanging frame of reference! The Ten Commandments! Rogue judges are choking religious freedom in the United States….such as the case of Judge Roy Moore of Alabama. Our Constitution does NOT require Separation of Religion FROM the State! It requires that the State can NOT Establish a State Religion! Without Christianity there can be NO FREEDOM…. Please tell me; which other religion allows for Freedom? I must remind you that my first pick was humans! Can any two males or two females of any species, produce off-spring, fulfilling the mandate of….let’s just say Nature…to perpetuate the species? NO! How much scientific evidence does one need to know that this is against even nature it’s self! That is about the same as the scientific proof that humans evolved from, monkeys! Where is the XYZ??? Where is the Proof that they fulfill their mandate to multiply? Indeed they cannot! Again, how much scientific proof do we need! Here, it is very evident that the philosophy of “Situation Ethics” as purported by Author Joseph Fletcher; is at work….This is the belief that there are no Absolutes…but rather to know and discover right from wrong…the group must decide…(any group) Right and wrong Fletcher teaches….the group involved must do that which brings the most good for the most folks in the group!…..Can’t ever get away from “Subjective Truth” and if Truth is any thing it is Not Subjective…but Rather Objective! It matters NOT how many thinks something is true…It can NEVER Make it true! So much for your idea that because ….3-4 denominations accept Lesbians and homosexuals as Christian proves nothing! I keep up with the news also, most of the churches that I have noted, that approve are homosexual churches and have homosexual priests or the majority of members are homosexual! Any church that approves such life style certainly dos not practice Biblical Christianity! I say that Homosexuals and Lesbians cannot continue to practice their sinful life style and be Christians…Because to be a Christian one MUST CONFORM to the Teaching of the Bible…The Word of GOD….and that my friend, as you well know, teaches that “Sodomy” The practice Homosexuality and lesbianism is sinful acts and against the Teachings of the Word of God and Must be repented of and to repent…means to turn away from the sin that brought you to the need of repentance in the first place! My friend if the majority does not rule….We have no democracy! Hence NO FREEDOM! Shame, shame…How far has justice fallen in the streets? Here is the Sorry Results of “Situation Ethics” at work! This philosophy was used by former president Richard Nixon, and Now is used widely by our judges! Also is the source of the so Called....Politicaly Correct Idea! How does this judge address Democracy here? He knocks it down and tramples all over it!

corrections2004-06-12 13:41:17observer

The author of the previous post makes a number of incorrect assumptions and assertions to try to prove his argument. For one, everyone is given the right to believe in their own absolutes, but the wall of separation between church and state requires that these theological beliefs are not codified into law. The fact that the ten commandments cannot even be posted in public buildings should show that they cannot be a tenet of legal jurisdiction. As proof of the unnatural character of homosexuality, the author attempts to use the animal kingdom as an example. However, numerous scientific sources have shown same-sex parnering among various species (,'s/homosexuality.htm, just from a quick search). The author also makes the assertion that it is impossible to be both gay and a Christian. The election of Gene Robinson as bishop in the American Anglican Church would prove otherwise. Numerous denominations are beginning to acknowledge the gays and lesbians in their congregations. As for majority rule--just like with freedom--there are limits. In deciding whether the government may impinge upon a fundamental right (such as marriage, as noted by the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia and Skinner v. Oklahoma), the Supreme Court engages in strict scrutiny, which requires a "compelling state interest" and a law that is "narrowly tailored" to fit that interest. While in Lawrence v. Texas, Sandra Day O'Connor noted a compelling state interest in defining marriage as heterosexual, the course of history has shown the development of constitutional rights as society begins to acknowledge its own diversity. As Justice Kennedy wrote for the majority in Lawrence v. Texas, "times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress." The rule of the majority is tempered by considerations for the rights of the minority. If you are going to argue against the rights of a segment of the population, you must use the standards set forth in our Constitution and have the preponderance of real facts (and more than mere assertions) on your side.

Let marriage be a religious act2004-06-11 16:07:02chiefh

Randy The idealsand religion that this nation was founded on cannot allow the marriage of gays to be a religious act: You are asking for all who believe in our founding fathers, their beliefs, and all Christians in America to turn their back on their Faith in the Bible, which we all believe to be the word of God! Laddie, from reading your post you seem to be well into adult hood, old enough to know better! We are a FREE NATION...We the People run the country! If we allowed a hand full to dictate to us we would no longer be a free nation....Being an adult, you should be able to understand that! Explain, to me please, why everyone should change their lives, culture, religion, and politics.....just to address and conform to the ungodly acts of the few! Ungodly...U Bet! In addition to having served my country for over twenty years in the US Army...I have also served about 44 years as an ordained minister! I am well versed in OUR FREEDOM...I was Korea and Vietnam, and I know what it is all about....Also, I am well versed in the various philosophies....and religions of the world, I recognize when one lives by and try’s to require others to accept the philosophy of "Situation Ethics", which does Not even consider the idea of whether or not there is a God....Certainly it does not consider the fact that there are absolutes in our world, such as the ten commandments! I could give you many, many passages of scripture...about the sin you want all of our society to accept as righteous.....the scriptures which all Christian folks believe to be the Real, True, Word of God, but you have no doubt seen and heard them all before...and these would never convince you or anyone who does not believe in God or the Word of God to start with! So, let me make another argument....From the Natural Point of view! Being Gay is NOT Natural...Period...It is only a Choice...a very BAD Choice! Show me any other creatures that God has made...and He made them all, that go against nature! Show me a pair of cows, bulls, any pair of animals or any other creatures that go against nature….How about the birds? No, Not even the birds…they have more sense! God wanted all of his creatures to multiply….He told Adam & Eve…Multiply….That is the Will of God….He said it!!! Not me! CAN Gay’s or Lisbon’s have children to gather? NO!!! That is against Nature….Doth Not Even Nature it’s self teach you anything? Wake up laddie and smell the flowers! There are NO Christian Gay’s….that is a contradiction of terms! It’s impossible! Perhaps in some other country….in some other culture, some where….it would be….NO! Not there either…..there are many people and cultures that are living, so to speak, back 100s of years …very backward and uneducated folks…But nature has taught them that such a life style is wrong…NOT Natural! How can you justify thinking that a few can be right and so many be so wrong! God loves you…He gave His only begotten son for you….Jesus died in your place for your sin….Yes! But ya must be born again….to be a Christian….One can NOT confess his/her sin and expect to receive forgiveness if he or she has no plans to turn away…from their sins! We can NOT continue to live in sin and be a Christian! That my friend is against the very teaching of the Bible and God’s Plan of Salvation! I would advise you to turn to the Lord and accept His forgiveness and conform to His Will for your life! God does have a Will….a Plan for your life…Talk to Him about it! I would advise you to turn to the Lord and accept His forgiveness and conform to His Will for your life! God does have a Will….a Plan for your life…Talk to Him about it! The pain that you guy's suffer from is Not one that can be solved by acceptance into society.... the shame, the stigma, the Pain is due to SIN in your life…That is what God is trying to get across to you and why you are so miserable and feel rejected by society as an outcast….Humans Need Fellowship with humans….but to have fellowship an harmony and peace; one must first be right with God and then he will be comfortable with other folks! Also, you evidently NEED to Study up on what Freedom is all about…..Freedom is NOT FREE nor is FREEDOM without Boundaries! You will be Free as long as you obey the laws of our society…The Majority Rules ya know! John 3:16